The Religion of Pre and Post Workout Nutrition.

By Will Brink

Pre- and post-workout nutrition is all the rage these days, and for good reason. For some, however, it’s become more than a science—it’s become their religion, or perhaps just a place to focus their OCD-like tendencies. Regardless, people have taken the topic of pre- and post-workout nutrition to a level that is not justified by the research, or at least not confirmed by the research that currently exists.

Readers should realize I may have my membership card to the Bodybuilding Nutrition Guru Society torn up and thrown at me for what I am about to share in this article…

As expected, supplement companies—and self–proclaimed ‘net guru types—have used what does exist for research to convince everyone that that if they don’t take in exactly 98.7 grams of carbohydrates and 37.2 grams of protein within 28 seconds after they leave the gym, their muscles will be attacked by every muscle-hating hormone they possess in their body by second 29; with the prior year of hard work in the gym totally wasted by second 30!

People are fixated on this particular topic like nothing else, and when you throw in the other possible ingredients that can be added to the post-workout drink, such as creatine, glutamine, and many others, it’s taken to the level of psychosis!

Of course supplement companies have come out with their own “techno-functional ultra-repartitioning multi-dimensional”* post-workout drink formulas that are claimed to be the latest breakthrough. Besides the carbs and protein in these formulas, many of the additional compounds are either under dosed (ergo the ‘label decoration’ syndrome), have no particular justification for being in the formula in the first place, or both (ergo, the ‘shot gun’ approach)…but I digress.

Now I have to take at least some blame—or credit—for this predicament, depending on how you want to view it. I have written extensively about the importance of post-workout nutrition in all manner of articles, and give the topic extensive focus in my Bodybuilding Revealed e-book.

Unlike many of the supplement companies and ‘net experts’ out there, however, I never claimed you would shrivel up into Pee Wee Herman in a matter of minutes if you didn’t get your ultra high-tech post-workout drink 29 seconds after your last set of squats. I have always taken a balanced view on the topic, by pointing out that food is still more important in the overall equation of muscle growth.

Thus, what I can say is that research—and common sense—tells us it’s advantageous to get some fast-acting carbs and protein after a hard workout to optimize the time we put in the gym. From there, however, people have relied more on wishful thinking than science for their pre- and post-workout nutrition. People who have poor diets and poorly thought-out training routines, but focus on the latest magic pre- and post-workout elixirs are missing the point. Their approach is like trying to hold up a three-legged stool with one support leg and the other two missing.

General Considerations of Research vs. the “Real World”

As we all know, a great deal of research is performed that—although interesting—has very little “real world” application to bodybuilders and other athletes.

This is because scientists do everything in their power to study their chosen topic in isolation. In other words, they go to great lengths and trouble to control variables that will impact the outcomes of their studies. For example, in a study looking at the effects of a drug or supplement, a placebo group is matched to the “active” group. The scientists want to make sure the effect they get—or don’t get—is due to the drug/supplement and not the placebo effect. Making the study double-blind is another way of attempting to prevent the bias of the scientists from influencing the study.

The point is that, when they attempt to isolate an effect of something being tested, scientists often end up with results that may not always be directly applicable to the “real world” of Joe Schmoe gym goer.

When study designs don’t reflect “real world” conditions, they need to be taken with a grain of salt. Were the study participants fasted? What type of exercise did they perform? What effects did the researchers actually look at and how does that apply to the “real world” or athlete in question? Were the study participants new to the form of exercise being utilized in the study or were they experienced athletes? How many people were in the study? Who do the results apply to: endurance or strength athletes? Both? Neither?!

Those are just a few of the essential questions that have to be asked and answered before you can even begin to draw any useful “real world” conclusions from the studies that come out. Yet this doesn’t stop people and supplement companies from jumping on the latest studies as the last word in nutrition and start making recommendations from them. They also tend to ignore the studies that contradict or fail to replicate the advice they are giving out. Let’s look at some examples…

The Fast vs. Slow Protein Craze..

The use of fasted subjects in nutrition studies illustrates how researchers can end up with results that may not apply well to the real world. As the name implies, the study subjects are a group of people who have not eaten for an extended period of time. In many cases, they haven’t eaten for 8 – 10 hours or more, which of course does not reflect how the average person eats, at let alone how the average athlete eats—especially bodybuilders looking to add muscle mass.

Enter stage right, the “fast vs. slow” protein craze. The study that got this craze rolling was called “Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion” and was responsible for causing a resurgence of interest in casein. The basic premise of this much-touted study was that the speed of absorption of dietary amino acids (from ingested proteins) varies according to the type of dietary protein a person eats.

The researchers wanted to see if the type of protein eaten would affect postprandial (e.g., after a meal) protein synthesis, breakdown, and deposition. To test the hypothesis, they fed casein (CAS) and whey protein (WP) to a group of healthy adults, a single meal of casein (CAS) or whey WP following an overnight fast (10 h). Using this specific study design, they found:

•WP induced a dramatic but short increase of plasma amino acids.
•CAS induced a prolonged plateau of a moderate increase in amino acids (hyperaminoacidemia)
•Whole body protein breakdown was inhibited by 34% after CAS ingestion but not after WP ingestion.
•Postprandial protein synthesis was stimulated by 68% with the WP meal and to a lesser extent (+31%) with the CAS meal.

The basic non-science summary is: the study found that CAS was good at preventing protein breakdown (proteolysis), but was not so good for increasing protein synthesis. WP had basically the opposite effects: it increased protein synthesis but didn’t prevent protein breakdown. The problem is that they were using fasted subjects for a single meal. ***

Keep that in mind as we move along here…
So far so good right? So what can we conclude from this study and how useful are the results? Like so many studies, the results were interesting—and of little use to people in the real world. Do these results hold up under more “real world” conditions where people are eating every few hours and/or mixing the proteins with other macronutrients (i.e., carbs and fats)?
The answer is probably not, which is exactly what the researchers found when they attempted to mimic a more realistic eating pattern of multiple meals and or the addition of other macronutrients. The follow up study was called “The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention.” Four groups of five to six healthy young men received:

• a single meal of slowly digested casein (CAS).
• a single meal of free amino acids mimicking the composition of casein (AA).
• a single meal of rapidly digested whey proteins (WP).
• repeated meals of whey proteins (RPT-WP) mimicking slow digestion rate of casein (i.e., reflecting how people really eat).

So what did they find? In a nut shell, giving people multiple doses of whey—which more closely mimics how people really eat-—had basically the same effects as a single dose of casein, and mixing either with fats and proteins pretty much nullified any big differences between the two proteins.

Even that’s not the end of the story, however, as multiple follow up studies done by the same group and others found these effects could also be different in older versus younger people and male versus female! How messed up is that?! So how much press did these follow up studies get? Little or none, as I recall.

Now, a later study did attempt to examine the actual net amino acid uptake after resistance training with whey vs. casein, and found both proteins had essentially the same effects on net muscle protein synthesis after exercise despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.

Does that put to rest the issue or debate of one protein vs. the other post-workout? No, as there are yet more conflicting studies out there and my bet is still on whey as the superior post-workout protein, but it’s important to realize the answer is far from established at this time.

Got Milk?

Milk: nature’s original MRP. Despite all the fancy proteins out there all claiming to be the next step in the evolution of proteins that “will blast you past your plateaus in the gym,” good old milk seems to be competing—and winning—against some “high tech” products on the market. We have various studies finding increased protein synthesis and other positive effects when a purified protein supplement (e.g., whey, soy, casein, etc.) ingested right after or before a workout—usually in conjunction with carbohydrates—but what about good old milk, a “real” food?

One recent study found good old milk to be an effective post-workout drink that increased net muscle protein synthesis after resistance training. Yet another recent study compared 2 cups of skim milk as a post workout drink compared to a soy drink and a “sports drink.”

In this study, the milk and soy drinks were matched for basic macronutrient ratios and calories and all three were matched for total calories. 56 male volunteers were split into three groups, with all put on a resistance training program for 12 weeks. The volunteers were then randomly assigned one of the three drinks to consume as a post workout drink and again one hour after the workouts.

Although no major differences were found in strength between the 3 groups, the group getting the milk had the greatest increase in muscle mass (via increases in Type I and II fibers) with researchers concluding

“…chronic postexercise consumption of milk promotes greater hypertrophy during the early stages of resistance training in novice weightlifters when compared with isoenergetic soy or carbohydrate consumption.”

But it gets better: how about our favorite childhood drink, chocolate milk? How about chocolate milk vs. two commercial energy/fluid replacement drinks, such as Gatorade and Endurox R4?

One recent study—albeit a small one—found chocolate milk as effective as Gatorade, and more effective than Endurox, as a recovery drink for trained cyclists between exhaustive bouts of endurance exercise.

Now is this a condemnation of sports drinks and an endorsement for milk/chocolate milk as the last word on post-workout drinks? Not at all: remember those essential questions I mentioned above? You have to look at such a study in context—in other words, at the experimental design and how that applies to the “real world.” The subjects fasted for 10 - 12 h prior to the chocolate milk experiment, and these drinks were the only food these guys had for 14 - 16 hours. The results may have been quite different had they been following their normal eating patterns.

They also measured effects on endurance vs.—say—strength or increased protein synthesis, etc.

So, in the context of this particular study design, look at it this way: chocolate milk has casein (a “slow” protein), and whey (a “fast” protein) as well as calcium, some vitamins and a bunch of carbohydrates—so it makes a pretty good, cheap MRP, if that’s all you are going to get all day long. It’s not a half-bad post-workout drink either. It’s not the best MRP—or post workout drink—I could design, but it’s cheap and easy to find. The reality is that there are some inexpensive foods out there can be used, and most of your old school bodybuilders and strong men used milk as the original post workout drink/MRP.

The study that looked at milk vs. soy and sports drink, was done in novice weight lifters, so that too needs to be taken into consideration. Regardless, milk, in particular chocolate milk, should make a perfectly acceptable and inexpensive post workout drink and people who think it’s too “old school” or not “high tech” enough to be if any use are clearly misinformed and the victim of marketing.

Now the study we need to see that does not exist, of course, is milk or chocolate milk vs. a well thought out post-workout drink of—say—whey and maltodextrin (high GI carb source), in experienced weight lifters who are not fasted—but don’t hold your breath on that one. Studies like that get expensive quickly and also pose practical issues. For example, if you wanted to match the protein content of—say—2 scoops of whey isolate to chocolate milk (so the groups were getting an equivalent amount of protein), the subjects would need to drink a large volume of milk (remember, milk is mostly water).

My hunch is that a correctly designed post-workout drink would be superior to chocolate milk, but it would be nice to see the two compared, no?

The Pre-Workout Drink

The pre-workout drink craze followed the post-workout craze after a study found pre-workout nutrition may be more effective than post-workout nutrition.

The study that got this craze going was called “Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise” which found that drinking a mixture of essential amino acids and carbohydrates induced a greater anabolic response (i.e., a net increase in muscle protein balance) when taken right before weight training vs. right after. ****

This study had everyone taking in a pre-workout drink as well as a post-workout drink in an attempt to cover all the bases. It should be noted, however, that—once again—they were using fasted subjects. Think of it like this: you have not eaten in 8-10 or more hours, then you are made to work out on a (very) empty stomach.

Under those particular circumstances, does it not make sense getting something to eat before the workout would be superior to after the workout? We all know hitting the weights on an empty stomach is not an optimal method to preserve—or build—muscle mass. Nor is it reflective of real world eating patterns where the vast majority of people have eaten a full meal at least a few hours before they hit the gym.

After this study, everyone started drinking a protein drink before they hit the gym. Interestingly, however, a recent study done by the same group who did the pre-drink study mentioned above, found whey taken before hitting the gym did not result in an improved net protein balance vs. taking it after the gym.

“Well wait a dang minute Will, now I am really confused!” you are saying angrily to your comp screen! Does this new study show pre-workout nutrition is no more effective than post workout nutrition?

No, and here’s why. It’s an apples vs. oranges study. The first study used free amino acids plus carbohydrates, and the follow up study used whey alone without carbohydrates—which is very odd if they were truly trying to see if free aminos were superior to a whole protein such as whey.

Unfortunately this latter study really didn’t do much to confirm or deny the first study’s findings. And, don’t forget my comments regarding using fasted subjects, which adds yet another wrinkle to all this.

So does that essentially disprove the pre-workout drink vs. the post-workout drink studies? Nope. One recent study did look specifically at the issue of timing and does support the idea that the pre- and post-workout window is the most effective period for ingesting some fast-acting protein and carbs.

This study, titled “Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy,” has gotten a fair amount of attention in the bodybuilding/sports nutrition oriented publications. The researchers examined the effects of a drink of whey, glucose and creatine given to two groups of experienced weight lifters, either morning and evening (M/E) or pre- and post-workout (PP), to see if the actual timing of the drink had an effect on muscle hypertrophy or strength development.

The study found that the group getting the drink PP had an increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments that were tested. The group getting the drink PP also experienced greater creatine retention and glycogen resynthesis, which means timing of specific nutrients is an important strategy for optimizing the adaptations desired (e.g., increased muscle mass and strength) from your hard work in the gym.

So does this study finally put to rest the issue of pre- vs. post-workout nutrition? No, it did not compare one strategy to the other per se, but did confirm that nutrient timing is an important aspect.

One obvious issue is that this study used a drink that contained creatine throughout, so technically it’s not a pro + carb study, but a pro + carb + creatine study. On the plus side, it was done in experienced weight lifters and they were not fasted, so it does at least represent the metabolic realties of “real world” people looking to get the most of their nutrition. Either way, it supports the idea of taking in the right nutrients both pre- and post-workout, but people should not be under the impression that this issue of timing has been “put to bed,” so to speak, and realize there are still plenty of unanswered questions yet to be explored.

Of course, there are more studies than just the ones mentioned above, so there are plenty of measurements on indicators of recovery from exercise, such as effects on glycogen resynthesis, alterations in hormones, and hormone levels. Nonetheless, I prefer to look at the actual endpoint that really matters at the end of the day: did this person gain muscle mass, strength, or performance by using this product? Without that, everything else—though potentially interesting—is mental masturbation.

Conclusions, and Real World Recommendations.

Now I didn’t write this article to confuse you, but to demonstrate that the optimal strategy for increasing strength and LBM in response to resistance training is not as cut and dried as you are often led to believe. However, it’s also probably simpler than you are led to believe, as the human body is far more adaptable to the types of protein it receives as well as the amounts it receives.

Thus, the people who stress over whether they got 35g of protein and 60g of carbs in their post workout drinks vs. 32g of protein and 70s of carbs in the drink are probably wasting their time, and causing what is known as “paralysis by analysis.” Put more practically, the amount of cortisol you produce from worrying about such minutia probably offsets any gains you might make from one drink vs. another!*****

I also wanted to dispel some of the hype over one protein vs. another, and the fact that expensive pre-made high tech drinks that are all the rage right now are just that: expensive and over hyped.

In the real world, people have used variations of the idea that fast acting proteins and a good dose of simple carbs can improve the effects of resistance training for many years. My good friend, the late Dan Duchaine, used to give people whey mixed in water and Corn Flakes with skim milk as their post workout meal.

One bodybuilder I knew who went onto be a well known IFBB pro, used to have a drink of whey after his workouts and several slices of apple pie at the local Friday’s restaurant next to the gym for his post-workout meal.

Most of your old time strong men and bodybuilders drank quite a lot of milk, and as we have seen from the research, it’s not a half bad post workout drink either.

If people want to buy pre-made carb/protein mixtures with other nutrients added (e.g., creatine, glutamine, various vitamins, etc) out of convenience and don’t care that they can “roll their own” for less money, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Just don’t think there’s anything magical about the pre-made post-workout drinks, no matter what the marketing material or web site says to entice you to purchase it.

Comments of interest:

* = yes, I have seen every one of those words used in the marketing of a product; sadly it's not exaggeration!

** = Brink’s Body Building Revealed

*** = The reason for this is that whey is absorbed rapidly (being a highly soluble protein) and much of it is oxidized while casein forms a “clot” in the gut and is absorbed slowly (being a fairly insoluble protein), thus causing a steady level of amino acids. That’s why they dubbed whey a “fast” protein and casein a “slow” protein.

**** = Measured as the Phenylalanine disappearance rate - considered an indicator of muscle protein synthesis - via femoral arteriovenous catheterization, as well as muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations

***** = Credit for that statement/joke has to be given to nutrition writer Lyle McDonald who said something very similar in a post on the news group misc.fitness.weights a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away about a topic I don’t remember….

References

Boirie Y, et al. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930

Dangin M, et al. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Feb;280(2):E340-8.

Dangin M, Boirie Y, Guillet C, Beaufrere B. Influence of the protein digestion rate on protein turnover in young and elderly subjects. J Nutr. 2002 Oct;132(10):3228S-33S.

Dangin M, et al. The rate of protein digestion affects protein gain differently during aging in humans. J Physiol. 2003 Jun 1;549(Pt 2):635-44. Epub 2003 Mar 28.

Demling RH, DeSanti L .Effect of a hypocaloric diet, increased protein intake and resistance training on lean mass gains and fat mass loss in overweight police officers. Ann Nutr Metab 2000;44(1):21-9

Tipton KD, et al. Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Elliot TA, et al.Milk ingestion stimulates net muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Apr;38(4):667-74.

Hartman JW, et al. Consumption of fat-free fluid milk after resistance exercise promotes greater lean mass accretion than does consumption of soy or carbohydrate in young, novice, male weightlifters. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Aug;86(2):373-81.

Karp JR, et al. Chocolate milk as a post-exercise recovery aid.
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Feb;16(1):78-91.

Tipton KD, et al. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.

Tipton KD, et al Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion before and after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jan;292(1):E71-6.

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Nov;38(11):1918-25.

Additional citations of interest:

Rankin JW, et al. Effect of post-exercise supplement consumption on adaptations to resistance training. J Am Coll Nutr. 2004 Aug;23(4):322-30.

Børsheim E, et al. Effect of carbohydrate intake on net muscle protein synthesis during recovery from resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. 2004 Feb;96(2):674-8. Epub 2003 Oct 31.

Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion during a short-term bout of resistance exercise suppresses myofibrillar protein degradation. Metabolism. 2006 May;55(5):570-7.

Baty JJ, et al. The effect of a carbohydrate and protein supplement on resistance exercise performance, hormonal response, and muscle damage. J Strength Cond Res. 2007 May;21(2):321-9.

About the Author - William D. Brink

Will Brink is a columnist, contributing consultant, and writer for various health/fitness, medical, and bodybuilding publications. His articles relating to nutrition, supplements, weight loss, exercise and medicine can be found in such publications as Lets Live, Muscle Media 2000, MuscleMag International, The Life Extension Magazine, Muscle n Fitness, Inside Karate, Exercise For Men Only, Body International, Power, Oxygen, Penthouse, Women’s World and The Townsend Letter For Doctors.

He is the author of Priming The Anabolic Environment , Body Building Revealed & Fat Loss Revealed. He is the Consulting Sports Nutrition Editor and a monthly columnist for Physical magazine, Musclemag and an Editor at Large for Power magazine. Will graduated from Harvard University with a concentration in the natural sciences, and is a consultant to major supplement, dairy, and pharmaceutical companies.

He has been co author of several studies relating to sports nutrition and health found in peer reviewed academic journals, as well as having commentary published in JAMA. He runs the highly popular web site BrinkZone.com which is strategically positioned to fulfill the needs and interests of people with diverse backgrounds and knowledge. The BrinkZone site has a following with many sports nutrition enthusiasts, athletes, fitness professionals, scientists, medical doctors, nutritionists, and interested lay people. William has been invited to lecture on the benefits of weight training and nutrition at conventions and symposiums around the U.S. and Canada, and has appeared on numerous radio and television programs.

William has worked with athletes ranging from professional bodybuilders, golfers, fitness contestants, to police and military personnel.

See Will's ebook's online here:

Brink's BodyBuilding Revealed

"Bodybuilding Revealed is a complete blue print to muscle building success. Everything you need to know about diet & muscle building nutrition, over 50 bodybuilding supplements reviewed, weight training routines, high intensity cardio, the mental edge, pre made muscle building diets and an online private members forum, diet planner, meal planner and much more. It's all in Will Brink's ultimate guide to gaining muscle mass."

Fat Loss Revealed

"Fat Loss Revealed is the ultimate fat loss manual. A complete online and offline system used by anybody looking to attain a fantastic lean physique. A complete fat loss diet plan, with pre made diets, over 40+ fat loss supplement reviews, resistance workouts, and cardio , along with motivation and goal setting and a huge online private members area and forum form Will Brink's Ultimate Fat loss Program.

Comments (59)

David Albest said :

Hi Will,

Great article as usual, thank you for keeping it real, way to much BS floating around the internet.

Dave.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 06:33 AM

Big Guy said :

Yo Will thanks for your email and great article, checking out some more of your stuff now, hope you see this message.

BIG GUY! Canada.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 06:34 AM

cole w said :

hey will mate' look im doin that 3 day programm,,
mon weds fridae, and for inbetweens like tue thurs sat, ive cut it down a bit and removed sum of your programme workouts, that i thin should be workd every 2nd day, it feels rite, i do bicep bar curls, tricep push down on lat pull down, shoulda press, dips for chest, and 100 times benchpress(( 50 60 kg)) also bar bent rows, i feel those muscles are better workd out constantly, do u think this will work for me,?

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 07:37 AM

Karen said :

Ever since I started using a post-workout recovery drink, I have noticed that my muscles are less sore afterwards and I have increased energy for the next day's workout. I had been drinking milk after my workouts before this...and I have seen more and BETTER results with the recovery drink. I guess this means that I am one of those lovely "exception to the rule" kind of people...

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:00 AM

fisio said :

Muscle Magazine´s gurus are ridiculous people who just say: buy more supplements, spend your money on the 24 listed supplements and you will be fine. If you dont buy the 24 supplements i recommend you, you are wasting your time at the gim dude.

Muscle magazines are not democratic media.

Will is the only guru who tells a science based and common sense oppinion.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:04 AM

Pat the Rat said :

Will,

Good article. I personally think the supplement companies are ripping us off by selling so many protein mixtures that promise to make us huge. They just don't work. I read a couple biographies, one on Charles Atlas, and one on Eugen Sandow, musclemen of a bygone era, and neither of them ever took supplements or steroids. They simply were not available in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Though they may not have been freaky big as some of the pro bodybuilders of our time, they were very well built and very strong. They simply ate good food and practiced progressive resistance. I decided several months ago not to waste any more money on protein supplements, but instead just eat healthy food. I am still making good progress in size (15 lbs) and strength without them.

BTW, could you lose the underline when you mouse over the text? Seems a bit hard to read that way. Thanks again.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:19 AM

Matt said :

Hey Will,

Great stuff on your website, really informative. A question, I feel that I have no direction at gym and my workouts seems wishy washy. I have now printed off and started the same regime that The Rock does to try and get a better workout. I am trying to bulk up but at the same time keep it to lean muscle only. Before I started The Rock program I just used to train really heavy and worked only 1 muslce group a day and did no cardio, I am pressed for time when I train. The Rock progam seems to have a lot of bulking and also a cardio feel to it.

Any suggestions for me?

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:32 AM

Libraeyes said :

Wow, an actual email from you. Your are the reason I started or am
attempting to get into fitness modeling. I would really enjoy meeting you.
i am trying to get to the Arnold classic just to observe this year, just
foolowing some of your suggestions. You are a GODsend.
Terri

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:58 AM

Libraprincess said :

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:59 AM

chris said :

Hi Will,
Real food like egg's, chicken and almonds we both know blow away most of these suppliments. I use to take whey protein, but now just rely on good food and feel the same, if not better. My father who was much stronger than me, never worked out. I asked a friend of mine why was the older generation naturally stronger than ours. His reply was todays food, which has pesticides and perservatives along with fake nutrients makes us weaker. What is your take??

Chris

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 09:34 AM

Matt DuFresne said :

Will,

Great article. As a former bodybuilder I get that their is way too much hype. I was just at the 'technology' wave front of the new bodybuilding era so some of my ideas were old school.Nice to find that what I always said was more or less correct. Eat a varied protein assortment throughout the day and you will have, in you, the necessary amino acds to facilitate muscle growth. 1 meal is NOT going to make or break your body.

I now work for a medical Dr specializing in obesity. Will grab your book and see if some is 'transferable' to our patient base. Keep up the good work. Would LOVE to see you turn the intellect toward aerobic sports like cycling and triathlon. (It's what I do now..go figure!)

Regards
Matt DuFresne
'89 Mr America Mr Universe

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 09:42 AM

Ammar said :

Hi Will,

Is it correct that working-out more than an hour will trigger the catabolic hormones in the body, which makes it useless to train more than 60 minutes? Does this apply for cardio too?

Thanks in advance and thanks for email will.

Ammar

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 09:51 AM

Will said :

Hi folks. Thanx for all the great comments on this article. I try to give science based objective no BS info, which is not always easy to do!

Matt, there's no reason my info will not transfer considering fat loss is the focus of one of the ebooks. I have a lot of docs using (see sales page for ebook for some of the letters from docs) the info and we have plenty of docs on the forums.

Terri, yes I will be at the Arnold. Let me know oif you are going to be there.

Guys with general questions about training and such, this area is really for feedback/comments and questions specific to the article, trying to answer general questions of all types that are not related to the article is going to make it one hell of a mess.

I do have lots of free articles here to help you with that, and if you really want to know all my thoughts on diet, supplements, and training, and save yourself years of wasted time and money, I highly recommend you read one of my ebooks.

Both bodybuilding revealed and fat loss revealed both come with private members only forums where you can then ask as many questions as you like on any topic, I answer questions in depth daily on those private sites.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 10:05 AM

Declan said :

Hi Will. Thanks for all your very educational updates. Im just wondering if you would be intrested in a very good, scientifically backed up product called Juiceplus. A combination of 17 different Fruit and Vegtables. The famous strengh coach Jack Medina from America speaks of it highly. You can view this product on my web site mccarronhealth.com Thanks for reading this. Look forward to more emails from you. Declan

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 10:22 AM

fairlane said :

OH NO WILL!!! I WAS TOO LATE DRINKING MY PROTEIN AFTER LEAVING THE GYM! I WAITED TOO LONG! MY MUSCKLES ARE DEFLATING!! ARRRGH!!! heheh

:D

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 10:30 AM

Bob Hastings said :

This would have been a good article if it were much shorter.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 10:37 AM

Will said :

Fairlane you wise guy! :-)

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 10:39 AM

Go Blue said :

Matt - The Rock's workout will work great for you, too, as long as you remember to chase that protein drink with a heapin' helpin' of roids like The Rock does.

Chris - I agree about our fathers' generation being naturally stronger. In addition to the factors you mention, they ate plenty of protein, and no HFCS, transfats, processed foods, etc. They also worked in factories or on farms, spent their home time hammering or sawing something and for fun hauled the engine out of the '37 Ford with their buddy.

Will - I agree with the previous poster - great content but way too long...it's an article, not a research white paper.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 11:30 AM

Brian said :

Will,

Alot of information, probably too much information and you're presentation is too technical and scientific for the average Joe Bodybuilder. Edit this down a tad and go easy on the scientific examples and you'll get your message across with much better results. Just a thought.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 11:34 AM

Dan Wood said :

My comment is not on the article itself, but on the format.

Why do most Internet strength and fitness experts rely on long "scrollie" pages for their websites.

Most users find these cumbersome and a little irritating.

I think it might be working against their best interests to force users to wear out their mouse wheel getting to the bottom of the page.

Just my 2cents.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 11:45 AM

Will said :

Thanx for the comments and feedback guys. My writings always range between easy to read and understand to heavy on the science, depending on the topic at hand.

So, people can generally find the level of info that fits their needs and knowledge level. For example, articles like "The KISS system for success" and others are on other end of the spectrum, containing essentially no science or data, etc. to read. I also write articles just for the fun of it, like "Bodybuilding Myths that must die" for example is a fun one.

I try to find the best balance, but at the same time, I write what I feel will cover the topic correctly, and some times that = in depth discussion of the science. Science nerds like me enjoy it, some don't, but hopefully the essential message gets through...

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 11:48 AM

johnny said :

man you are right ill try that. i want to ask you i don't eat very well though i try my weight is 84.5kgs and i want to bring it up to 100 before my next contest in October in south africa.how can you advise me on what to eat im planning on getting a weight gainer.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 12:13 PM

The other Dave said :

Will, good article, I like the technical aspects..keep the science in for future articles. If it gets too nerdy for some, they can go to the Rock's site and get it in morons...errr..Laymans terminology.

Matt has decided to become a pencil neck? What gives.....?

As always, keep up the good work Will.
Thanks!
The other Dave

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 12:36 PM

matarr said :

hi will,
Words are not enough for me to thank you for you r kindness, because you make me so healthy in your programm i gain alots of experiences on how to train and develop good muscles.We are millions miles away but still am following your programmers as well. i wanted to be a world champion of weightlifting in the near future.Am a african live in a country called the Gambia.
Hope to receive more from you
Thank you

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 01:08 PM

Burke Chandler said :

"Milk is good."

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 02:05 PM

Christine said :

Dear Will, I will be 46 in a few days time and I have been working out on and off most of my life, losing/gaining body fat along the way. I am an endomorph by nature but absolutely hate doing cardio. Is it possible for me to burn fat and build lean muscle through strength/weight training alone and good nutrition? Please give me some hope on this.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 03:22 PM

Jerel said :

Will,

I've yet to read your eBooks, but it will happen! One thing I would have liked to see is a recommendation for a simple pre- or post-workout drink. You sort of alluded to all sorts of generalities, and I know "everybody is different" and "YMMV" and all that, but hey! You are the MAN! You are the expert, and even some general guidelines to follow when assembling our own "roll-your-own" version would be fantastic!

I love everything of yours I've read, and I can't wait to get into the eBooks!

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 03:48 PM

Will said :

Jarel, did you look around my site for specific recommendations? As this article suggests, a few cups of chocolate milk may be perfectly OK. Can't get much more simple then that no? For more advice on pre and post workout nutrition with specific numbers for example, see:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=85

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 04:16 PM

paul brady said :

hi, i'm looking to gain weight & muscle. i train regularly in shotokan karate (2nd dan). i eat well, but am slimly built. can you advise on weight gaining supplements(tried a few, they were garbage),also should i use creatine, & finally is milk ok for after taining, if so how much , 1 pint ?. thanks ! p.s i train twice a week in karate, once a week i do some weight training. any tips on what exercises to do to gain muscle. i am fit, & am 38 y.o

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 09:23 PM

George said :

Will great article and informative. Was a little long but a good read. I have always been a milk drinker and have had what I would call good results as a source of protien. I started using whey and mixed it with water and just couldn't take the taste and then started mixing with milk and found it to not have a negitive affect. My question is this good or bad as a post workout drink? Or would this be to much for my body to take. Also would adding creatine to this be good or bad I take creatine before but wondering if taking after is good also.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 10:45 PM

Chris said :

If a 16 year old swimmer uses creatine, must he use it in a 5 week on, 5 week off cicle?

Chris

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 12:26 AM

Crash Nullage said :

Good one!

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 02:37 AM

Crash Nullage said :

It's like anything in life.Too much use can build up an increasing amount of immunity until something gives.i.e.the wallet,the kidneys,the eye-sight and so on...Cheers!By the way check this site out.Really worked for me www.energyscan.co.nz

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 02:41 AM

Isaac Fabelurin said :

Ok, here goes my first question.
Tabata HIIT, heard of it? Any good? Could you please talk about this and how good (or bad) it is?

Thank you

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 04:59 AM

Dr Don said :

Will, great article and research interpolation on many levels. I have been involved in developing Wellness models and their integrations for over a decade with clinical experience as a doctor incorporating and developing therapeutics/diagnostics from traditional medicine, CAM (Complimentary and Alternative Medicine), functional medicine/nutrition, functional brain-based neurology, manual medicine, physical rehab/performance training, blah, blah, etc. We are now, finally, embedding the Wellness based Model and business applications into the medical profession through a very specific gateway.
One of the reasons I first signed up online for you was because of your background and common sense utilization of research and "real world" applications and resultants. One of things a workable Wellness model must do is provide the docs with a standardization of reference base from which to "advise" and prescribe from. Standards must be created as well as a dynamic system of incorporating the new data, researched, empirical based and the like, piling up on a daily basis.
Your meta-analysis is truly wonderfully done but then when you begin to consider the hydrochloric state of the stomach for protein digestion, pancreatic enzymatic production/morphology, absorption ability, gut biosis, adrenal/thyroid metabolism, etc, etc. Hooboy!! But solutions, perspectives, knowledge and methods for implementation exist to truly enhance humanism as our primary goal.
One of my questions for you, for I see this as necessary as a model is absorbed and used by the medical profession, who, in your respected opinion, are the leading experts in the fields of training and performance enhancing nutrition?
Sorry for the lengthy diatribe and I thank you.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 11:39 AM

Will said :

Don, There's really too many people to name in terms of performance nutrition, with myself being one of the better known people in that area. I would read the ISSN journal and others for keeping on top of what the latest research is in that area and become more familiar with the names of those doing the research and such. My ebook, in particular the BBR ebook, is probably the best reference out there and loaded with data regarding supplements, nutrtion, etc.

Also, please see my additional comments above, ergo "Guys with general questions about training and such, this area is really for feedback/comments and questions specific to the article, trying to answer general questions of all types that are not related to the article is going to make it one hell of a mess."

Good luck.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 12:29 PM

Hagengimana ALFRED said :

Good evening Sir.I real appreciate what you do.Unfortinatly,I am student in physiotherapy dpt in KHI from RWANDA and Iam enable to read all your text because i luck money to use in internet cafe.I wander if it is possible to sent me the copy on this address: Hagengimana Alfred.KIGALI HEALTH INSTITUTE.PBOX3286.RWANDA

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 12:53 PM

guy lariviere said :

HI will just read your e-mail give me something

to think over. My question for you is this

two year,s ago i had weight loss surgery and have

gone from 403 pound to 193 pound i spend four day

a week at the gym 1 hour at a time i want to

build my upper body i take bcaa two time a day

creatine once a day better whey once a day and

calcium caseinate at night and i head in the

right way . I take a protin shake right after my

work out before i head for the gym i drink a

glass of o.j with bcaa in it. Then take my shake

with bcaa creatine chocolate milk and when powder

is this a good start can you help. Thank-you for

your time guy218@sympatico.ca

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 06:24 PM

adam spoerle said :

2 year ago i had gastric bypass i will not allow my self to get fat again do you have any tip i could follow thanks adam

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 06:29 PM

Will said :

Adam, see my article "The Big Picture of Permanent Weight Loss" as well as other artcle on my web site here, as the best starting point and consider my ebook Fat Loss Revealed for all things fat loss related, and as a reminder:

Guys with general questions about training and such, this area is really for feedback/comments and questions specific to the article, trying to answer general questions of all types that are not related to the article is going to make it one hell of a mess.

Good luck

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 06:48 PM

Robin said :

G'day Will,

Great article, well presented and lots of good information. Keep up the good work and don't you let the Knocker's of the world put you off your game.

Cheers

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 08:03 AM

Paul said :

Hi Will. Has there been any studies using yogurt instead of milk? I have used milk fortified with yogurt for many years as a quick meal on the run. I saw the study where people eat a quart of yogurt a day (I think) for 3 months and lost body fat. Paul.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 02:48 PM

Will said :

Paul, I have not seen any studies on yogurt as it relates to pre and post workout nutrition per se. Dairy products are associated with less bodyfat, but that's a different issue of course to pre and post workout nutrition. Milk fortified with yogurt might work perfectly well for that use in terms of the protein, but may be a bit low on the carbs, depending on the amount of carbs you may need, which depends on the type and duration of exercise being done. Hope that helps.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 03:10 PM

Scott Brouse said :

Great article Will!!!.

So some whey protein isolate,creatine and maltodextrin or dextrose mixed with skim milk would be a good pre and post workout drink?

What would your thoughts be on sipping something like this during the training session instead of having a pre workout drink?.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 07:58 AM

Will said :

Scott, articles on the site cover than info fully. See "It's all in the timing" as well as others. As this article suggests, a pint of chocolate milk may be just as effective however.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 09:28 AM

Adam said :

So should I just use milk as a pre-workout supplement?

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 02:16 PM

Brian Nassar said :

Hi Will!!

Thanks for the "add" email regarding this article. It helped bring me back down to earth and back to the roots of my training and nutrition philosophy. I was spending over $500.00 per month on BCAA's, Glutamine, WPI, etc. SERIOUSLY! This is not a "false or rigged testimony". Occam's Razor is the way I used to train and eat, and it is the way I am returning to!!

Living in the 'real world' is the only thing that matters!!

Brian Nassar

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 07:52 PM

Colin C said :

Hi Will.A real eye opener.Greenhorns like myself and many others out there assume the advocates of these pre and post workout concoctions know what they're talking about.It's not until you hear good honest unbiased info that your eyes realy open.10 out of 10 Will,keep waving the flag.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 03:03 PM

Colin C said :

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 03:04 PM

Will said :

Colin, I will continue to fight the good fight! Thanx.

Posted on : Feb 02, 2008 05:51 PM

eg said :

hi will.. probably one of the best articles i've read because it's one of the most realistic. I think we can relate this information to alot of research / opinions that are out there. I definitely think this industry is compicating weight gain / loss, to the extent that they're confusing people and directing them away from what's most important. simplified, weight gain relies on exercise and recovery (nutrition), while weight loss relies more on nutrition. why isn't there enough information that the 'real' person can apply to their lifestyle? (maybe this real information comes at the expense of a very expensive industry).. luv the articles! keep it up!

Posted on : Mar 03, 2008 06:16 PM

Max said :

Hi Will, so what are your thoughts on a peri-workout nutrition approach? I see more and more guys in my gym drinking a protein shake before, during, and after their workout. Are there advantages to this over a pre-/post workout strategy? Thanks!

Posted on : Mar 03, 2008 12:20 PM

douglas mathis said :

would a manmade milk product, Calorie Countdown, have the same anabolic properties as regular milk? Any variations on anabolic properties of whole milk vs 2% vs skim?

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Posted on : Jan 01, 2010 09:24 PM


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	Comments placed here should be specific to the article in question. I am unable to answer general questions here that do not specifically relate to the article. Thank you - Will Brink.

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